Honoured to have my ghost story x memoir essay “Man with Golden Helmet” featured in Issue 28 of Pulp Literature, set to launch on Facebook Live on November 7 at 2pm!
My pleasure to talk again Joseph Planta over at thecommentary.ca:
In August 2004, Joseph Planta premiered feature audio interviews with unique and diverse guests from renowned bestselling and prize winning authors, Canadian newsmakers and political figures, internationally known print and broadcast journalists, prominent academics and public intellectuals, as well as noted artists and personalities.
For nearly 1,600 interviews and fifteen years now, the Planta: On the Line interview program continues as a forum for engaging, informative conversations on current affairs and a wide variety of subjects.”
Thank you to Paula Tran, the arts editor of The Phoenix News, for publishing this lovely piece. An excerpt from our exchange:
How would you describe yourself in one sentence?” I ask her.
Renee pauses and thinks for a minute. “I am passionate about connecting people through poetry.”
As a poet, I’m indebted to Stephen’s work on not only the long poem form, but in particular, the life-long poem. Here are a few notes from my conversation in this fourth and final instalment of thecanadaproject interviews Stephen Collis:
About life-long poems and The Barricades Project
SC: “Well, in a way, the journal is the poem: I’m always writing, doing docu-poetry/poetics by entering things into my journal, including words and sketches. I’m now onto Journal #89: yeah, I keep track of these, they are usually black, with bound hard covers: I’ve over 25 years of journal writing, a daily practice, and the last 50 of my 7 journals are this art book type, unlined black.”
And it is in our discussion of these journals that S.C. speaks of the life-long poems as a kind of movement toward… the “horizon”.
SC: “I guess … The Barricades Project is the horizon I write towards, and this is what a life-long poem is for me—you never get there, but it provides direction and impetus to your work. Again like a Venn diagram, there are poems and books that will overlap substantially with The Barricades Project, but it will also always remain substantially outside of any of the poems and books I actually publish. Anarchive, The Commons, To the Barricades—these all feel like The Barricades Project (See Part 1 of this interview). But so do parts of On the Material and Once in Blockadia. [It’s] about forms not about product, about in-forming, occupying journals, it is the process of living-writing the unbound life and the bound; [and it’s also about] exceeding boundaries into ‘the beyondery’ –”
Steve goes on to say “life-long poems hover outside poetry” and I add, …are perhaps intricately engaged with questions of inside/outside…in speaking about these things we speak about long poems such as Dante’s Divine Comedy, with its defined structure and form, and we speak about how the long poem often negotiates, contemplates, mediates notions of scale, of size, the “epic” or “the saga”…quite often made with elaborate structures (Milton’s Paradise Lost, Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales) and boundaries, with limits. One example Steve laughingly recalls is William Morris’ The Earthly Paradise, which Steve describes as “ horrible “ (which makes me immediately want to read it, devour it): it’s about 40,000 lines in verse of rhymed end-stopped couplets…
(in my notebook, I write: The Rape of the Lock! Ugh.)
Going deeper: poets, fragments, and the life-long project
Steve and I speak about the influence/presence of the Romantic in this idea/ideal: that to be an artist is to live in opposition, to engage in social change…we share a laugh when I interject, “and then you met ‘CanLit’” and Steve responds, with a Bob Dylan quote, “to live outside the law, you have to be honest” and speaks about his work and reading of both Robert Duncan and Phyllis Webb, both of whom he describes as “anarchists…they wrote of an alternative/alternate world”…
I’m surprised by Steve’s take on Robert Duncan and he reminds me of Duncan’s work: e.g. The Passages poem, fragments of which reoccur throughout Duncan’s oeuvre and Steve mentions a 1940’s essay Duncan wrote for The Nation, “The Homosexual in Society,” and how Duncan at that time outed himself as a gay man.
Steve also cites Phyllis Webb’s Kropotkin Poems, “it’s epic” and written by a woman and he sees it as a model for his idea of the life-long poem and the long poem and their inter-relationship with place/space…also with incompleteness which leads back to walking and of course to Wordsworth (The Prelude, being the only part of his projected “Recluse” that Wordsworth completed.)
Steve adds in a later note to me: “the Kropotkin Poems never were written – just fragments, some of which she published. It’s the idea of them, the intent and ambition, that draws me. Their “openness” in being incomplete, and the struggle Webb went through in (not) writing them. How do you write the anarchist epic? By not writing it, Webb’s experience seems to say.”
The horizon we write toward is the life-long poem, is the Barricades Project, writing toward, that is the life-long poem.”
We discuss the voice of the barricades, “problematic yet necessary” and Steve speaks about what I call the urgency of now, how will we live together…S.C. speaks with respect for other poets such as Cecily Nicholson, Jordan Abel, in how these poets “track the we” and his own passion for writing toward an inclusive we, that trans-movement between self and other.
My biggest desire is to be in conversation about a shared space, to be engaged.”
We end our afternoon exchanging ideas about how to make poetry out of the public sphere, out of the political and we discuss the documentary as a strategy of research, how to report and make voice, how to transfer, evoke emotion, how to compress, probe, excavate, remove, redact, destroy, subvert, and yes, how to make new, this language.
Read the rest of the interview below:
In conversation: thecanadaproject interviews Stephen Collis, Part 3…
When Stephen Collis won the 2015 Sterling Prize in Support of Controversy, I thought about his commitment to both poetics and activism, and this past July, Steve was kind enough to chat with me at the JJBean at SFU Woodward’s. I scrawled lots of notes while speaking with Steve and he’s added to my raw transcript: the conversation began with his most recent trip to the U.K. and then shifted to an exchange about Steve’s growing up years. I’ve tried to capture our give-and-take, below:
SC: I grew up in a political household, both my parents were public school teachers in the 1960s and 1970s in Victoria, B.C. There was always a lot of kitchen table conversations. I was the youngest of seven, and politicized by my elder siblings and their experience and conversations about the 1960’s.
My grandma is from Nanaimo from the time of its coal mining community-roots, and her grandparents were originally from North England (Northumberland) and Scotland. I grew up in the 1980s in a culture that included logging on the Island and a strong awareness of the eco-impact of that culture.
In my 20’s I messed around, worked on a fishing boat and in hotels. At 19 I had a child, my son, who is now 31…during that time I became interest in mapping the land, in geography, in the idea of place as a central ‘marker’ of the long poem… [and I] started thinking about the life-long poem as a space within which to live, inside the poem, inside place, the long poem as a project of space…
I attended the University of Victoria, although I kinda “walked out backwards with an English degree”: wary of universities and of institutions, I spent ten years as an undergrad. I’ve now been writing and publishing for 25 years (!). My first book was published in 2000, having published chapbooks and in literary journals during the ‘90s. It was at SFU that I found writers such as G.Bowering and Roy Miki and thought, “maybe this is an okay place”…by age 34 I had a PhD studying Robert Duncan and a job—Jordan Scott was one of my first students.
The whole point of art is liberation
RSS: How did your interest and activism in ecological issues come about?
SC: Because I was the youngest, Dad and I were able to spend time together. He was near retiring, and we spent lots of time outside in the natural world, taking canoe trips. These moments strengthened my sense of geography, place, environment. As well, the “radical hippy” views of my older siblings were a continuing influence as well as their arts and music practice(s)…so I came to literature informed by the notion, the ideal of liberation.
RSS: Your philosophy/attitude to teaching, I’ve always experienced as open and generous…
The year I was born, my parents took in a Nigerian university student for a whole school year and I’ve learned since it’s the custom to always keep a baby held and close to the body and my mom was busy and I was the last of her seven kids, so it was the Nigerian (Richard) who carried me everywhere, “he always carried me”….
I guess one thing we haven’t talked about is my sister Gail, who had a huge influence on me—as an example for a person for whom the world, life in it, was political through and through—without espousing particular politics herself. She was also an artist without practicing a particular art, a thinker and a reader too. My most meaningful discussions about how to live, what to do with my life, etc. were with her, and she read and commented on everything I wrote early on, encouraged etc. She died of cancer at the end of 2002, and I still feel, writing, that she is one of those I’m really writing for. She told me my theme as a writer would be “revolution,” and in most ways I’ve stuck to that. Sort of a “commission” in this.
On Refugee Tales
RSS: This year’s Refugee Tales never seemed more timely given world events and you were there.
SC: [It’s] a walking tour of South England similar to the pilgrimage walks in Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales. Last year’s walk was in Kent, walking from Dover to Crawley; this year, we walked from Canterbury to London. Along the pre-planned route, we stayed in church basements with a team of organizers and we stay in place likes church basements. Over a hundred people participated including, folks from NGO’s, as well as the actor, Jeremy Irons. I was invited to participate by David Herd who will visit SFU in spring 2017. There is a book, an anthology, from last year’s walk, which was launched in Canterbury in July, Refugee Tales.
RSS: And you’ve a piece in that anthology.
SC: A collage, “The Lawyer’s Tale” exploring the idea of displacement…”it was hard to get a narrative out of the lawyer”.
RSS: This year’s walk was a few days after Brexit and I’m interested if there was any reverb from that on the walk?
SC: A sampling of places on the walk: Gravesend: “white and run down” and voted to leave; at a local pub, we saw the King George I nationalist flag. I kept a journal for facts, docu-notes, especially bits of said things, conversations, when walking, and tried to capture a lot of intense dialogue. Those of us on the walk wore tee-shirts and passersby would stop and look. In London, people thanked us for the walk.
RSS: Your description of The Refugee Tales walk reminds me of images from the film adaptation of Children of Men.
SC: In thinking of this walking action and the life-long poem, there is a kind of simultaneous, “always present/always absent” quality of a life-long poetics. Walking with us were former detainees, from an all-men Detention Centre in the U.K.: mostly African, Sri Lankan, Chinese; ¾ of detainees, African. A year ago, a few Kurdish men. Many hold the status of “undetermined” and their hope is to achieve the oxymoronic designation, “Leave to remain”. The purpose of the walk was to raise awareness, and to challenge the practice of “unlimited detention.”
I did give a talk, the first year on the walk, on the commons, landscape and resource extraction (lots of talk, interest in the UK in fracking and “shale oil,” mining in park land, etc.). Talked about climate refugees, too. The Refugee Tales is one of those projects I like because it overlaps with my main interests, while remaining autonomous/outside. Think of a venn diagram; there’s a small space where the Refugee Tales and my work in and around the commons, The Barricades Project, and Blockadia intersect.
Another point, and perhaps relates to the comment below about privilege: we cannot afford to silo ourselves in the current crisis, and need to be aware of how most contemporary social issues intersect. So while my focus might be on, and my energies directed towards, climate justice (and sometimes, more broadly, social movements that challenge the current economic system), I see the way all manner of struggles intersect. I also see it as a crucial practice to support, show solidarity with, and give space to those who have been most marginalized, violated, and exploited by capitalism and colonialism. So I think this is part of what draws me to the Refugee Tales project, and in turn is part of what Indigenous solidarity, decolonization, and Indigenous leadership/ideas are so crucial to the work I do around climate justice. I’m still working out what this means to be a poet living and writing on—and out of a love for—colonized land.
- In conversation: thecanadaproject interviews Stephen Collis, Part 1
- In conversation: thecanadaproject interviews Stephen Collis, Part 2
- Stay tuned for part 4 of thecanadaproject interviews Stephen Collis